I always prefer chasing with nades and rockets over cg, but i find cg extremely boring.  it definitely is and should be the primary distance chasing weapon and i think it's fine for that. 

the only problem i have with it currently is more due to the laggy netcode or whatever that causes you to go from 40% to 0% instantly because youll get hit with a bunch of rounds at once.  part of what makes dueling against a cger possible is the fact that you can react to their stream.  when the lag causes large chunk damage like that it negates the ability to react to their aim.  this happens constantly...

Quoted for *fudging* truth! On the other hand, cg's lameness just amplifies the awesomeness factor of MA shots

In a way chaingun is tad unfair weapon, it's the most ping reliant weapon: Low ping players always prefers chaingun over anything else. And the constant damage? I can bear that.. but constant damage that kills you with full health within 2 seconds? No fun.

I wouldn't mind if bullets hit you often, but the current DPS is causing me to writhe in pain whenever I see big-meanie Jossiqua or Ajaxis with chain: Mind as well respawn at the first sight. If that's not a sign of OPed weapon, I don't know what is.

Where is he btw?

If there are two players who scare you, isn't it possible that they're just good players and the weapon isn't overpowered? Crazy, I know, but I figured I'd throw it out there.

LIES!

I like the reload option.... but we all know we have many complainers.

He was taking the piss. Or he damn well should have been.

CG is fine, harden the *dance* up.

I agree.  CG should stay the way it is for now.  People need to stop having a pinata party with the nerf bat.  Changing something like the damage or fire rate on the chaingun could have very real negative consequences for people such as chasers.  I agree with Nept's point-- thus far I haven't seen many people who have become crazy powerful with the chaingun solely due to the update.  Although I do think the update has made the stock CG better, it still doesn't feel that broken to me.  And for those of you complaining about how ping reliant CG is, it's a silly argument, because in any FPS game weapons that have very fast projectiles (or hitscans) are obviously going to favor players with lower network latencies and good aim.

   Also not helping the situation is the fact that a number of weapons were nerfed the crap out of in the last update, whether directly or indirectly.  Some of this was necessary.  The Laser Rifle was just way too powerful in the right hands.  For better or for worse the new RLS is arguably much less versatile and useful. Clusters were nerfed to the point where they're now considered grossly underpowered by most Sentinel users.  GLII regular projectiles often bounce off of players, even if they're not primed to detonate.  But you say, wait, our trusty rocket launcher and grenade launcher haven't changed.  (excluding the RL self-impulse buff)  Well, yes and no.  The overall behavior of the stock Rocket Launcher and Grenade Launcher haven't changed to the best of my knowledge.  However, that oft maligned "noob" tactic hotswapping was eliminated with the previous patch.  Yes, hotswapping was overpowered in the previous patch, you could dramatically increase the rate of fire of your weapons if you had fast fingers or used a macro.  Ironically however, it was one of the few tactics which allowed for parity when duelling a skilled CG user.  I think a limited version of it should have been implemented rather than scrapping it completely.

Even if you agree with all the weapon nerfs and the elimination of hotswapping, there's still something that comes out of this all that's hard to argue otherwise-- Chaingun is going to get more powerful in duels etc. with respect to the other nerfed weapons.  So if anything, I think we should be considering improving existing weapons somewhat and/or coming up with new content to counter the chaingun.  Some examples that have been suggested which might work well as a CG counter include an energy shield that taps into the player's jet reserve and any kind of close range weapon which would outdamage a CG if the player closed the distance gap between themselves and their CG wielding adversary.

  Most of the arguments I see for the chaingun being balanced amount to people saying, in effect, that the people complaining about the weapons power are somehow playing incorrectly.  Let's assume, for a moment, that I know how to play the game.
  I accept that the chaingun may be required, without much of a nerf, for chasers to continue to be effective.  However, all this would require is a simple change to my proposal: Keep the current system that makes the weapon not "overheat" or "reload" at high velocities.  Even with a reduced amount of damage or rate of fire, the weapon will still provide a powerful means of killing flag-runners.  I'm not arguing that the weapon should be made useless, but I do think that when a single weapon is the best choice to use in almost every situation, there is something wrong with the balance of said weapon.
  Finally, I disagree that the weapon is somehow difficult to learn. If you have medium range to low ping, it's just a matter of leading a target and changing your lead as they shift directions.  However, thats not the point of this post.  I'm trying to draw attention to the fact that the chaingun has the potential (and is currently operating at that potential in many cases) to be a devastating weapon with unmatched versatility, often to the detriment of the other projectile weapons.

Rouge cg is not fine in the right hands it can be turned into a sniping weapon without a beam thats stronger then the new laser rifle( which sucks) and as stated befroe two times IT CAN *dancing* KILL IN @ SECONDS!!!!

Ghedit: Wordfilter.

But if CG gets nerfed, i  can't call people chain whores
Anyway, no, i don't think the CG is OP
Unlike Rocket/GL there is no splash, GL may need a nerf more (this is opinion), since you can shoot like an idiot, hit no where near them and still do some damage. The cg however, your gonna need some good aim, and why nerf the wep  that people with good aim  can enjoy because they actually worked hard to get that good aim, im not saying the CG is easier or hard to learn, that is once again, Opinion. It depends on the potential of the player, and if he/she wants to learn/master the CG
Also the RL is a fun weapon, 2 direct MA's and the person is dead (excluding Regens, and im talking about outrider/Raider, Sent is just a pain...so..i won't get into that)
Please, by no means call a weapon OP, the Chaingun, a Machine gun, is basically for dealing damage in quick Succession, While RL/GL is more burst (opinion, still)
CGs also have the overheat, Maybe, for those who REALLY  THINKS  it needs a nerf, give CGII an overheat, but i still stick with it doesn't need a nerf

In my Opinion, i say it all goes on aim, if your aim is Sweet, then use whatever wep you want, but also remember, RL/GL is the heavy duty, CG is not in any way a secondary wep, I mean you start with it equipped most likely every bot, so it may be primary. CG is meant for dmg some ppl say, but people use RL/GL for dmg, like hit em with splash or direct then switch to cg, or the other way around

CG is For Chasing, thats one mechanic of it, quick succession to down the Carrier, while RL/GL is simply you miss u gotta wait a sec, not idea for Chasing (Also Opinion) It may just depend on Aim

Also, RL/Gl may knock em out of the sky, which may be a mechanic, a reason for using it
Also threads like this may be opinion all together, some may think its underpowered, while others think its Balanced (don 't need a buff or a nerf) while others think, of course, its Overpowered.
Its all Aim (not including potential to learn a wep)


Consider Newbloods, they may spam GL/RL, CG maybe! its what they want, what they wanna do, i still say its all opinion.
Sorry for this long boring chain of text

My post, and the replies in agreement, suggested that the majority of these nerf-the-cg threads arise from people who don't use the weapon effectively.  I did not suggest that the complainers play the game improperly.  This difference is not trivial, especially when the main argument is "the cg is easy to use, everyone rapes with it".  If the people making this argument are, in fact, bad with the cg, then it brings to light their real reason for posting: their own benefit.


The chaingun is most definitely not the "best choice . . . in almost every situation".  At medium, medium-long, and long range, the cg is the most effective "anti-air" weapon of the lot.  At close and medium-close range, however, MA's are key.  The cg can still be effective, but a well-placed MA will win the fight. And any time the person is landing, regardless of their range, you're looking toward the splash weapons. 

Legions is not Tribes.  The added maneuverability of the former means that medium-long/long distance MAs will never be hit as consistently (assuming duel-type movement) as they were in the latter.  That is the small price you pay for increased movement and for an increased skill differential. 



You've committed two errors here: 1) You've reduced the required skills to their most basic form, and 2) You've brought ping into game balancing.  I'll explain the former through an example: 

"Finally, I disagree that MA'ing is somehow difficult to learn.  If you have medium-range to low ping, it's just a matter of leading a target and clicking your mouse.  You can hit multiple MA's by simply adjusting your lead and clicking your mouse again."

Do you see the problem?  Martial arts, at its most basic, is simply moving your body to strike someone.  Playing the piano is simply striking keys. But you'd be an absolute fool to think that's all there is to it, that those are easily-learned skills.  Yes, it is true that registering cg streams is a matter of adjusting lead.  But not many people are able to adjust their lead quickly enough to compensate; not many people even notice their own directional changes and adjust accordingly; and not many people are good with the cg.

And you can't bring ping into game balancing.  Sorry, I know it sucks if you have higher ping (I run 80-110), but games must be balanced around low-pinging players.  You can't assume that the community will be so small that players from opposite coasts, and from entirely separate continents, will have to play each other. You can't assume that central deds won't exist.  The only way to balance around ping is to introduce a zero-ping netcode, and I don't see that happening any time soon.   


You argue that the weapon has the potential to become over-powering, that it's easy to learn, and that many are proficient in its use.  Far, far more people are adept at splashing the ground, however, and it would be easy to argue that since people must land, that since their energy does run out, that splash weapons are overpowered.  Your posts carry undertones of hope for the MA game, yet we all know people wouldn't magically gravitate toward long-distance MA's in duels.  Instead, they would simply hover there, waiting for the simple splash shot, as most already do.
 

    Nept, you are theory-crafting in a vaccuum here.  You yourself admit that the chaingun is the most effective anti-air weapon at medium-long distances.  In effect, if you aren't using the chaingun while closing to a fight, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage by taking damage without giving any in return.  At closer ranges, yes, mid-airs can turn a fight.  However, the problem with the way you described a fight assumes that the first MA ALWAYS hits.  It doesnt. If you miss this first MA, you are again at a disadvantage. Your chaingunning opponent will have been doing at least 20-30 damage for each rocket MA you miss.  Logically, if this is the case, which weapon is better to use? The one that, some of the time will cause 50 damage? Or the weapon that, if used correctly will always do more then a fifth of the enemies health?
    I'm not suggesting that the chaingun should be removed from the game.  I'm simply saying that the weapon is currently too effective at what it does and needs a reduction in this strength to put it at a more secondary/sidearm position.  The chaingun will still be used and a vital weapon under my proposal, it just won't be the ONLY weapon someone needs to dominate most aspects of the game.

You've replied to only one small section of my post and have apparently read none of, or chosen not to reply to, the remainder.  I'll post an actual reply when you've bothered to read and respond to mine.

As for theory-craft, I'd be more than happy to dm you for awhile and demonstrate that using only the cg is not a viable tactic.

   I dunno, I've always been under the assumption that the chaingun should be for close combat (not medium to long range), but those are probably just my Tribes colours showing.  
   It just seems like it'd make more sense if the chaingun's purpose was for short range damage; Rocket launcher and grenade launcher, covered the middle range; and Sniper was middle to long range.
   But then again, this Legions update that will blow us all way and turn the game upside down will likely make all of our arguments moot.